A note from Kinetic Dave

[Keith D]

Kinetic Dave has passed a comment regarding tracking non ADS_B aircraft
maybe worth a read --paragraph 2

http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12087&sid=8fe402c752031d10e0625dea12af181f

K/

[junglejet]

I have heard much talk of Multilateration for enthusiasts and I suggest with learned opinion that this will not be tolerated.


My learned opinion:

Aurora's on approach...

Sales talk much like about the 5 minutes delay before...

Too much defensive thinking instead of a way forward. With its USP technical abilities (counter, ethernet) the SBS-1 could have been at the very top edge of the list. Instead, moaning...and trying to protect a market by doing nothing and shooting the bull in bold letters ("It's all mine here")

It simply lacks a genius programmer that brings Basestation a bit forward.

Why is Mode-S cloning these self complacent characters? Psychologists please!

[satcom]

Interesting comments that reflect a knee jerk reaction to Mlat.

Users will realise that a great amount of respect has been built into the PP system.
This is exactly why all the processing is done by the users/sharers .
It not only takes a great strain off the server but also ensures that there is a delay in the  resultant plot  which requires a level user interpretation.
There are also other in built security features and porcesses.

The system is monitored closely....users can be turned off at the flick of a switch , Ground Stations disabled.
The details of every user are checked and confirmed.

This is one of the reasons why it  will be extremely difficult for any other organisation to set up a useable/responsible  mlat network......the control and monitoring side of things will be too labour intensive to be financially viable.

[DaveReid]

So the boss at Kinetic, which sells professional Multilateration systems, says that non-professional MLat won't be tolerated ...

As dear Mandy once observed, "Well he would, wouldn't he?"

[Anmer]

A very rare appearance on his own Forum, so rare that the whole piece is emboldened so no one will miss it?

So what prompted this exceptional appearance?  Fear of a UK security backlash that will put an end to selling ModeS receivers or concern for those facing justice in India?  Maybe both.

David Goodman is a successful businessman and without his initiative we may not be enjoying this aspect of the aviation spotting hobby.  But he also said there was no market for an ethernet enabled receiver, MMS would not be allowed, the 5 minute delay was a security requirement and (now) Mlat won't be tolerated.  Maybe Chris should tell him about PlanePlotter?

David makes some valid points but I remain sceptical.

Two years ago he asked me to prepare and, with others, score a list of Basestation enhancements so he could develop a new version.  He even formed a Beta Group to test it.

I was also at the ML&S Open Day in 2009 when he announced that a new version would be with the Beta Group within 12 weeks.  He also announced a Summer Party in Sywell to celebrate the 10,000th SBS-1 being sold.

I rest my case.

[Anmer]

This is one of the reasons why it  will be extremely difficult for any other organisation to set up a useable/responsible  mlat network......the control and monitoring side of things will be too labour intensive to be financially viable.

I would hazard a guess that PP isn't financially viable if one were to use standard accounting practice and apply a notional charge for satcom's (and others) time?

[satcom]

Just as a matter of interest ...and I'm sure Dave Reid can put me straight here....but of those a/c that are non ADS-B I would think 90% or more are either small GA airframes or commercial aircraft whose operators simply do not want to go to the extra expense.
The other 10% , perhaps routine military  traffic of which say 1% might be mission sensitive..... so if we look at the overall picture , were it not for the commercial restraints , all but a tiny percentage of traffic would be full ADS-B plotting away on SBS1 and RB.

If tomorrow it was announced that all aircraft could have ADS-B fitted for free....which would mean every movement would plot on SBS1/RB , would Kinetic be complaining  I wonder ?






 

[satcom]

This is one of the reasons why it  will be extremely difficult for any other organisation to set up a useable/responsible  mlat network......the control and monitoring side of things will be too labour intensive to be financially viable.

I would hazard a guess that PP isn't financially viable if one were to use standard accounting practice and apply a notional charge for satcom's (and others) time?

I would say you were spot on Mike....but then PP is a non profit making system run by enthusiasts  for enthusiasts. I wonder sometimes if thats why its seen as such a threat by the commercial sector....where-as in reality  its now probably the biggest incentive to buy a new SBS1 so that a user can take advantage of the Mlat facility.

Of course the balance will swing as soon as Michael launches the AuroraEuroTech box which he is trying to make as PP user friendly as possible.

If  Michael saw PP Mlat as some sort of maveric , irresponsible outfit , then I'm sure he wouldnt openly recognise it.

[DaveReid]

The other 10%, perhaps routine military traffic of which say 1% might be mission sensitive.....

Personally, I think the military argument is a bit of a red herring. 

Does anyone seriously think that military aircraft fly operational missions with their Mode S transponders activated ?

No Mode S = no possibility of MLat.

[Anmer]

I hear they worry about those Islanders?

[satcom]

I hear they worry about those Islanders?

We have that covered Mike...my  PM refers

[DaveReid]

I hear they worry about those Islanders?

Hard to see what MLat-ing the RAF Islanders will tell you that the average London or Birmingham resident can't work out by simply looking up in the sky ...

[Anmer]

I merely passed the comment. 

No MMS, 5 minute delay, no Mlat, Reds under the bed, fifth column........

[Keith D]

May well be Kinetic know more than some think
regarding there comments

someone must have been in contact with Kinetic which probably prompted the
posting on their forum

appears they have paid the bail money

its an SBS1ER also

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/23/british-plane-spotters-face-jail-india

if its the latest software the 5 min delay will be missing also
one things for sure if the British Govt departements didnt know about it they do now

wonder if they had PP in the laptop

K/

[DaveReid]

someone must have been in contact with Kinetic which probably prompted the posting on their forum

More likely that DG's been asking himself what he could do to get the multilateration genie back in the bottle ...